WAV Studio - Part 2
From left to right: Benjamin Teoh, Safwan Sarimin, Carmen See, & Jason Chow
Transcribed by Celestine Foo. Photos and words by Nabil
Whether you want to summarise the workforce into something akin to a tug of war against a proverbial industry, or components of an engine jointed together to ensure the company functions apiece, it’s crystal clear to see that collective individualism of each’s own dedication to their craft all contribute equally to the success of WAV Studio. In the 2nd part of this interview, we explore their upbringings, the real truths of why they joined this company initially, into what it has become today.
*This interview is condensed and rewritten to be engaging in a story format, parts of which may be edited for the reader’s understanding.
The Colours of Individual Backgrounds
"First, I want to talk a bit about your passions. How did photography become a main passion of yours and subsequently a way for you to excel at it, making it a career?" Nabil begins, establishing the context.
“I started in advertising for my degree, but how I got into photography and videography was during my high school,” Recalls Jason. “So in Form 4, I joined a ‘Badan Beruniform’ called St’ Johns.”
“I joined there because they are finding someone to do the photography and videography for their camp. But at that time I didn't know anything about cameras, anything about photo and video. But I just go in because of my senior. He is a photographer himself. So he taught me everything about photo and video. So from there, I shot the whole camp to start with and got into photography. So he taught me all about photography in terms of camera settings, lighting, everything.”
“Once I started shooting, I thought to myself ‘eh shit, I’m actually good at something, so I continued, from Form 4 until now.”
Safwan then returns, "To be honest, I don't think photography is my main source of income. I think this turned into a career because I didn't have anything to do after my studies. Plus, I studied photography and videography. In the scope of work now, the priority goes to videos, while the photography takes a backseat.”
"If both of these things weren’t your main, what did you actually want to do?" Nabil prods with genuine curiosity.
With a hint of a smile reminiscing the yesteryears, Saf says, “I used to enjoy drawing back in the day.”
“Watercolour paintings used to be my thing. I even planned to pursue art after graduation, create artworks, exhibit them at galleries, but during the same time, I had also pursued photography. And I remember thinking to myself, since I’ve already bought a camera already, why not just continue with it?”
Saf then added, “If I wanted to paint and draw again, I had to purchase equipment and stationery so I decided to just stick with photography.”
"Photography at that time was something you took as an elective?" asks Nabil.
“Actually, it was drawing that was the elective, but I have always liked drawing since high school. I’ve had tons of sketchbooks that I’ve filled and drew on since my diploma days.”
"What about you, Carmen? Has graphic design always been something you have wanted to do?" Nabil looked at Carmen, who had been a silent observer this whole time.
"Actually ever since after college, I realised I liked doing magazine design. After I graduated, I wanted to try working with fashion magazines and editorials, that kind of thing. That’s why I joined Masses that time, because they had that magazine so I went and joined. My strength is actually in layout design, which is to design the layouts for editorials and books. I slowly tried to turn this skill into a digital format," said Carmen.
Nabil follows up, "Were there any particular sources of inspiration that you referred to as you were doing the layout designs?"
Popeye Magazine. Photo Credit: KDPresse.com
"I think it's Japanese fashion magazines," Carmen answered without hesitation.
"What made you attracted to them?"
"Mostly their visuals, their layouts, and the way they play with paper, material and stuff like that."
The Beauty is in the Process
Going under the surface, Nabil steers the conversation towards Carmen's motivation. "Based on the construction of the book, the layout, the designs and the visuals, could you describe a bit more about what made you dive deeper into it? One thing that I can think of off the top of my head is Popeye Magazine. What makes that magazine so attractive to you?"
"Inside the book, they have a lot of different layers of papers and they cover a lot of different things. In the magazine, it’s not constricted to one layout, there are many layouts to showcase that content," Carmen answers after thinking a while, explaining that the variety was what caught her eye.
"The skill set in designing a magazine and digital art is very different. How did you translate that skill?" asked Nabil.
"One of the examples that you can take is the Petaling Street magazine. That kind of thing is difficult to create digitally. So you still have to do it manually. How I did it previously was by scanning images into the digital platform and editing it. That is one of the ways to simplify it. I actually dislike using digital platforms to create images because it will look very fake."
"Would you say that you are a process-driven person? Since you like to do everything manually? I feel that when you do it manually you can include that humanistic touch inside. What part of the process appeals to you?"
"It's really hard to explain but... I mean... You can see the difference between something you create on a digital platform and something that you create manually. If you compare the unpublished magazines that we created with those digital ones, you can see the difference, right? The layering and the texture, the paper texture and stuff. And also I tried to use handwriting for the font and everything."
"Okay, so you feel that through a manual process you get to include more organic touches in all aspects," Nabil sums it up.
His attention then turns to Safwan, who had been listening along.
"What about you, Saf? In terms of your disciplines, what would you say are the differences between something that is manufactured for the sake of manufacturing and something that has meaning and value in the output?"
"Obviously the result would be different, whether you do it out of passion or for work. For passion, you put in a lot of effort and work, such as researching from scratch, everything. For work, the direction usually comes from the client, different people, different agencies, who give you a guide, and you do that."
Safwan passionately delves into the differences.
"You can see the difference. And then I rasa, you can appreciate passion projects more. If you want to talk about doing it for the sake of work, you can, but we are always caught with timing and clients and other demands, so the product is no longer raw or had deviated so much from the original vision. Whereas a passion project would mainly come from you alone."
The partners of WAV Studio
Camaraderie in a Partnership
"Would you say that you guys as individuals have always been hustlers?"
"I think for the past 5 years, yes. Since we started a company, I feel like everything is coming from the three of us. If we don't hustle for it, then nothing will work out. If someone doesn't do his part, then everything will not go well. It's different because when we used to work for someone, the outcome wouldn't affect us too much if things weren't okay. When we have our own company, we feel that if we do not achieve what we or our clients want, then we have to think about the solution," Safuan expanded.
“The hustle comes from being a leader and leading because there’s only you.”
Nabil turns to Carmen, asking for her opinion.
"I agree with what Saf said. Owning a company is like, if anything you do is not good, it will affect everyone in the company."
Drawing from his own experience, Nabil asks, "Back in Masses, like you said, we were all employees, right? So, now running your own company together as a team, the weight of the responsibilities are different; there’s a lot more to be accountable for. I would imagine it's much heavier. How do you guys deal with that?"
Safwan jumps in to answer after thinking a while.
"From my perspective, everyone has their own role. Like for now, Ben handles the client side and most of the operations. I am in the production side while Carmen does graphic and finance. Each of us, obviously, have our flaws. I admit that sometimes I fuck up."
The three murmur and nod, relating hard.
“But that's where communication comes in.”
On set. Left to right: Safwan, Carmen, Jason, and Rocket
"If there's a fuck up, then we discuss what we should do. Sometimes there are solutions. Sometimes... We don't really have one at all, but we never sit still until it's resolved."
"So it's always moving about?" Nabil chimes in.
"Yes, we still discuss things but most importantly, we don’t leave it hanging, like of that’s fucked up, and we leave it as it is. Still, we find solutions but never point fingers."
"Carmen, let's say you fucked up on your portion. What happens then? " Nabil queries.
"As the only one handling design, if I have problems then I will try to voice out. Maybe find someone else to cover a bit of my job," Carmen said after pondering the question for a bit.
"Has there been any sort of finger pointing? Nabil probes.
There is a simultaneous "No lah" from the two interviewees.
"You guys try very hard to keep it that way, right?"
"Yeah, we don't want to be like Masses lah," Safuan quips. “For real.”
After some hesitation and encouragement, he recalls an unpleasant experience from his former company, where he felt like his work was not recognised.
"Tak best la."
Nabil asks, "How would you rate the importance of keeping an open conversation? Especially like in a small company like this."
"Ten, obviously," Safuan instantly returns.
"Everyone has to show their efforts because the whole reason we started a company was to build our names. We have targets and values to align on."
Personal Touches in a Collective Output
Moving on to a lighter note, Nabil asks how the two developed their individual styles.
"I always like to look at people's work. I admit that I use references from some videos, but I add my own touch to it. My inspiration usually comes from pictures and I implement them into video."
"Is there any specific personality you refer?" Nabil follows up.
Without any hesitation, Safuan says, “For photos, Joe Greer, the man behind Bandit Running. He’s inspired me a lot in my work and the direction which I’m taking in my works. When it comes to videos, it’s Gakuyen.”
Photo credit: Joe Greer
Carmen, on the other hand, says she has no fixed style.
“I will try to explore different kinds of stuff that the client wants. But I don't think I have any fixed style.”
Nabil follows up, “Would you say that you take pride in being a generalist?”
“Actually the work that I do is not for myself. I still have to put in what the client wants so not everything is my idea.”
“So would you say that being adaptable is key in your line of work?”
“Yes.”
Parameters in Creative Licenses
Moving on, Nabil questions what the most difficult part of their job is.
“When the work doesn't represent what the client wants, or the message is not delivered effectively.. For example, when I put a modern touch on videos, I’m afraid that old people wouldn’t want to watch it. It can’t be too fancy or too normal. There’s a border line and I worry that the target market will not be attracted.
One example would be Sportsclick. The target market is made out of old people, so there is a risk if I modernise it too much or add too much exciting cuts that it detracts the target audience away from viewing the video.”
Carmen shares that she faces a similar issue.
“I feel like I lose my individualism when I have to do what the client wants. The hardest part is to balance this issue between what you want, and what the client wants.”
The Fruits of the Team’s Labour
Nodding with understanding, Nabil then asks how they feel working in something of their endeavour.
“Coming from running your own company, I feel that there is satisfaction with every piece of work that I put out, even if people don’t appreciate it. I guess it stems from the fact that I know that we have our own company, I’m doing work for our own company, and clients come looking for me because of our work; to put in their stores like with adidas and Levi’s for example.
They’re coming to us for our talents, and that for me is the most satisfying.”
“But at the same time,” Safwan adds, “it isn’t without struggle.”
Safwan elaborates, “Sometimes, things run smoothly, everything is working well. Other times, there are slacks here and there.”
“Nothing is ever straightforward. What you see us doing like ‘oh they’re shooting adidas, Levi’s, other big names, sure a lot of jobs, a lot of money. That’s never the case. What goes on behind the scenes is a shitload of firefighting that we will have to sort out internally to make sure the shoot goes smoothly.”
He then reflects on the processes. “But it’s all part of the journey. We feel the full spectrum of emotions, from things getting fucked, to fixing those fuck ups, to a solid execution, and finally, our work up on retail stores, that’s satisfying for me.”
“So to reiterate, the satisfaction comes from the fact that all of this was done with your efforts?”
Beaming with a smile, Saf simply replied, “Yes.”
“I’ll give you an example. Back then, we’re working for someone. Whatever it is that we put out, the credit goes over to that someone, who is the figurehead. It’s not the company, but that person, who wasn’t even involved in the process that gets the credit.”
We all nod as we process the collective pain. “Nabil then shifts over to Carmen to get her thoughts. “What about you Carmen? How does it feel like to be working on something that is 100% your own?”
After a brief pause, Carmen responded, “Well for one, it’s good that whatever we’ve made is 100% ours and nobody else’s. Of course, I share the happiness of the team as well whenever we succeed in each project.”
A Partnership Joined at the Hip
Moving on to the development of WAV Studio, Nabil asks what they felt when the invitation to join Ben arrived.
“Admittedly, I had just joined for fun only. Because that time my sister wasn’t doing well, so it was a backup plan for me to sustain our livelihood,” Carmen recalls.
Saf also shares the same sentiment. “When the invite came, I had honestly thought to myself, this won’t last. Especially since we started this during the beginning of the first lockdown, there was no reason for anyone to stay.”
“We struggled, because we couldn’t go out, we couldn't shoot. But we persisted, and half a year in, we were too deep into it to pull out, so we just kept on pushing on.”
Saf then recalls a major event that switched his perspective. “When we opened the office, that’s when it hit me. Oh shit, this is a full-time commitment now. With such a permanent step, the mindset also shifted to now put 200% into everything that I do.”
“Cos I’ll be honest, it didn’t feel like a full-time thing. Initially, it felt like we all had our own jobs and WAVS was a part-time thing.”
Nabil then asked, “So when the office opened, then you realised the weight of it?”
Saf then interjected, “Actually it was before that. It started getting serious when we locked our first retainer with a client. From there, we knew that we had to keep the ball rolling, so we did.”
“When did you realize this would be sustainable?” asked Nabil.
“When we got our retainer, and we started getting more jobs,” Carmen replied.
‘Kuasa’ lookbook for Joe Flizzow. Photo Credit: WAV Studio
“I still remember my first job - Joe Flizzow,” Saf excitedly shared.
“Bro, Joe wasn’t our first job lah,” Ben interjected. “It was BATE.”
“How we landed that gig was through word of mouth. At that time, BATE was looking for people to handle their social media. They reached out to us because they knew us, they knew our capabilities. They said, “Friend, friend, let’s try to do lah.”
He bluntly adds, “Honestly, that didn’t open any doors at all.”
“But even though the pay was shit, that kickstarted us. This was our first actual gig for the company and not for us as individuals.”
“Through that, we started to build chemistry, we started to brainstorm, think about how to work shit out and stuff like that. That is how all the tasks are allocated for the partners in the company.”
“How would you describe the partner dynamic in WAVs?” Nabil asked.
“I mostly do the front end stuff because my partners are introverts. Very introverts,” Ben quips.
Safuan enthusiastically agrees.
“So I have to take up the front end part. It came very naturally to me because I love talking, I love meeting people and I talk a lot. It occurred to me that by talking a lot, you get a lot of jobs as well. I'll be doing PR, getting jobs, and finding clients. Then once I get the job, my team helps to execute it.
“Actually all of us have different roles, not only one specifically. We have our primary role but as the company grows, we tend to do more than what we are capable of. This then becomes a learning curve for us as well to pick up unfamiliar skills. Saf, for example, used to be photo-focused. Eventually he started picking up videos because of the lack of manpower. Then he became good at it! He has a certain style for the work that we produce. Carmen currently does graphics. She additionally took on the art direction of our branding, our website and even for our jobs. Hence why I said we wear more than one hat. So that’s our dynamic in terms of working.”
The Future of WAV Studio, In Their Words
“Where do you see WAVS going in the future?” Nabil tries.
“At the moment, I don't think we are going to scale up the company for now,” Carmen replies.
Safwan seems to regain confidence and takes his turn.
“My personal target is to develop more skills. There are a lot of things I learn from Rocket. Colour grading, how to make it look cinematically pleasing, a lot of other skills as well. As a person, I want to grow those skills for future jobs. If I get a job that requires videos, I want to focus on that. And as for the company, I want to try to tie us with big brands. Not like one job, I want us to be doing every campaign for them.
Ben then took the reins and asked his partners, “In your opinions, where do you see the direction that the company is growing?”
Both were stumped.
“I think for me, we’ve now become more of like a creative agency. Because if you say we do production, we don’t strictly do just that. We’re doing graphics, we’re doing social media management, we’re doing all aspects of it.”
“Fully-fledged? Not yet, but I believe we’re heading there.”
Nabil then turned to Carmen, “What about you?”
“I want the company to go in a direction where we get quality jobs. I don’t want people to come find us because we are cheap. We know the quality we can produce, and we want people to appreciate that quality and pay fairly in that sense.”
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